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Post by Darth Draconis on Jan 10, 2019 0:27:41 GMT -7
Who's rooting for Trump to get the border wall built? Who thinks it's a stupid, impractical security measure?  Where do you fall on the issues of border security, illegal immigration, and national sovereignty? |
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Post by Halápi Dávid on Jul 1, 2020 14:28:24 GMT -7
In my country (Hungary) the government have anti-immigration political view. There are three parties that are anti-immigrants, and the other all pro-immigrants. Here in Hungary the governing party have an absolute majority, so the other parties can't vote against it. A rightist party called "Jobbik" (which means both "rightist" and "better") had two ideas about the immigration situation. First they had the idea of people can vote about this migration question, and after that they wanted to write it in the country's basic law that Hungary doesn't allow settlement for immigrants. The government years later held the poll, which said 3 million of 10 million people doesn't want immigrants in our country, and it's not a smaller amount, because only 3,5 million people voted, so not more than 500.000 people wanted to let the immigrants settle. From the first minute the government used the immigration question as a propaganda: there were huge advertises on the streets, on the radio or tv about that they will save us from illegal immigrants. Ex-president candidate Gábor Vona once said it's not because of racism of the government, just the government need an enemy so they can seem fighting for our good. I will be honest, I'm a far-right man, so I could agree with the anti-immigrant politics, but not with this kind. It's not about the problem itself, just a propaganda of the government. The real illegal immigrants made lot's of crimes while they were travelling through Hungary, but having polls and having advertisement about how we protect everyone is not the right way to deal with this question. Oh, I almost forget, we have The Wall's beta version, it's called " fence". I don't follow Trump's or America's politics anyways, so I can't anything about it. |
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Post by Jacen on Feb 9, 2021 12:43:09 GMT -7
I think the wall was our one true defense against illegal immigration. It has been proven to work. And now it's been halted. The result... illegal immigrants pouring in by the thousands.
I'm not against immigration itself. Just the illegal part.
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Luther
Sith Disciple
Posts: 41
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Post by Luther on Jun 8, 2021 2:26:51 GMT -7
The enemy, as usual, is already within.
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Post by TheDude on Jul 24, 2021 11:30:54 GMT -7
Perhaps the most famous wall out there is the Great Wall of China. It was built to keep out invaders. Was it successful? No. The Mongols, the Liao, the Jin, and the Manchus all successfully invaded after the wall was built. It literally did not perform the basic function it was supposed to. What was the actual benefit of the Great Wall of China? Subjugating the Chinese people, of course, and tourism over the years.
Were other walls successful? The Moscow Kremlin Walls failed to keep Batu Khan, the Poles, and Napoleon out of Moscow. Hadrian's Wall was often dismantled and used as a resource for parts by the people it intended to keep out. The Berlin Wall was used as a tool of oppression and subjugation. Failure after failure; it seems that the historical precedent is already set and the creation of a wall could easily be dismissed on those grounds.
But, wait, there's more!
I've already seen videos of people getting over the parts of the wall that have been put up on the US-Mexico border. It's clearly not effective. Maybe it can keep out extremely old and disabled people who pose no threat to anyone. We also already have a fence in a large portion of the border which predates the wall, and it has failed in its purpose. Want to get over the wall? Just bring a construction ladder with you, simple enough.
In conclusion, the wall is a foolish idea. History makes it clear that it will be unsuccessful. People are already getting past the wall that has been built. Immigrant children do better in school. Illegal immigrants contribute to US economic growth. They also commit far less serious crimes than the general population of natural citizens. Not only will a wall not work, it won't even exist for a good reason. Therefore, I am opposed to its construction.
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Luther
Sith Disciple
Posts: 41
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Post by Luther on Jul 26, 2021 1:12:40 GMT -7
What about cultural bleeding?
It seems like people immigrate because where they came from doesn't seem as good as where they are going. The whole idea of immigrating says that we have something they don't or they would just build or find it there.
The question isn't so much about walls as about culture and I think that is the buried lead here.
Culture is like human technology. The way we live, the way we see things, even the things we do in our spare time shape us and especially our kids. Better culture gives more advantages. I think that one of the great strengths America used to have is that we used to be hungry to find and integrate cultural strengths from all over.
Historians record how nations acquire science, technology, and military capabilities but I think the most important strength to a nation is its culture and for a while America seemed to be the only one actively trying to adopt all of the best parts of all of the best cultures.
Kind of like China is getting into making supermen with biology and genetics, America was making people who had some strengths from every nation they could get. And keep in mind that those cultural strengths weren't accidents either. Each culture faced many adversities for thousands of years and only those who developed the best answers managed to survive long enough to pass them on. In many ways I think America forgot their biggest breakthrough. Cultural adaptation.
We sat at the feet of all humanity and learned lessons that took hundreds of thousands of years and countless lives to capture and we respectfully and enthusiastically adopted what we could.
Now I think we are mass-importing cultural weaknesses which are lowering the quality of our culture which has already become corrupted from the inside and doesn't need help from a bunch of people who don't know why they are truly coming here.
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Post by TheDude on Aug 3, 2021 13:48:35 GMT -7
What aspect of Mexican and South American culture is so negative as to construe their immigration as "cultural bleeding"? I fail to see any such aspect. Those from that culture I have met have been hardworking, determined, strong, and capable with relatively few exceptions. I hold that the culture they bring is far superior to certain subcultures in the USA, such as the KKK and similar large groups, and welcome the dilution of those cultures by means of the introduction of theirs.
Keep in mind, also, that many illegal immigrants are people who have faced great adversity and lived under totalitarian governments or fear of criminal syndicates. People who make long journeys, often by foot, across countries and continents in order to seek out a better future for themselves and their children. These people have the qualities a nation should expect to see only among its best citizens. Going through such tribulations leads many of them to have a greater degree of wisdom and hardiness than the average American by far.
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Luther
Sith Disciple
Posts: 41
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Post by Luther on Aug 11, 2021 3:23:49 GMT -7
Well, here is the thing. If they are so great then why is their country so bad that they want to leave? Americans built America. You didn't see Americans immigrating away at anything like the rate people have been coming in and that has gone on for hundreds of years now. We had gangs and scares and one of the bloodiest civil wars that the world has ever seen. Still not seeing Americans fleeing their country. Not only that but Mexicans are at the mercy of the cartels right now. I agree that there is a lot of good in the Mexican culture but they are not stable and they lack backbone. They are fleeing problems and not solving them.
There are also a lot of Africans crossing at the southern border. You do know that Africa has had two genocides in my lifetime right? I was in Australia when mass murder erupted in Sudan. I talked to those people and taught English among them. There are plenty of good things in African cultures but they need to deal with their shit. We all do.
Look at the Saudis. They live in a desolate desert. They have some oil but their land is so barren that they can barely survive. Despite that they have been pushing technology and innovations that are getting more and more impressive. Recently they found a way to shock clouds with drones and increase rainfall by 5-70%. They aren't immigrating here, they are innovating where they are and I am inspired by that.
Israel has a lot of enemies with a thousand years of bad blood. Whatever you think of them, the fact that they have lasted this long is impressive. They also tend to take our old gear and modify it to the point where it can do things ours can't/ There were some old decommissioned jets we gave the Israelis and they tweaked them to the point where they could keep up with our new one in most things. Impressive. Also not immigrating away from their very tough situation.
Japan got destroyed and nuked and changed their culture to technology instead of war. Inside of a century they were a world power again and led technological innovations for quite a while.
If cultural excellence is as powerful as technological superiority than we need to understand that watering our culture down is a real problem. From what I am reading we have had over 100,000 immigrants cross the border in just one month this year. This isn't counting the ones we don't catch and bring in and the numbers are just escalating. US pop[ulation is about 350 million right now. We are on track to get somewhere between 2-6 million people this year at this rate. That means there is going to be one completely new person for every 58-175 current Americans... This year.
Does that seem a little fast?
How long will it take them to absorb our ways? Will they even bother? If not, is that good or bad for us? They all seem to think that they come from countries that aren't as good as ours. They are all people who leave instead of staying and fighting for something better.
I strongly suspect that American culture is importing weaknesses. Even if the people coming are happy to learn and adapt how can we integrate them successfully? I suspect it takes two years to make them functional and self-sufficient. 5 years to catch up with our level of education (abysmal as it is). And 20 years to deeply absorb some of the really central truths we have collected as a culture. I listen to all sorts of immigrants talk about their adaptation process and most of them don't seem to realize just how deeply important freedom is until it hits them about a decade later.
I think most Americans are pretty weak on the culture that made us great. Add a significant number of strangers who have never lived in a place like this and its only going to get more watered down.
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