Notice 4 New Arrivals
Jan 3, 2019 19:23:00 GMT -7
Post by Darth Draconis on Jan 3, 2019 19:23:00 GMT -7
So here's where we're at right now: this site is launching. Not because I'm taking my ball and going "elsewhere" from Luciana's version of the Order, quite to the contrary, as I will remain active there and will likely, at some point, be given my due in the form of earned title and rank, but I am not planning on doing anything to help her administer or grow her site - as there is no recognition for such efforts (titles can be chucked at a whim these days) there's nothing in it for me.. Any participation there will be to my credit and for my benefit, and I will not be lending the legitimacy of that to her site by endorsing or abiding by her new ranking policies. They are unfair, unjust, and dishonest in the extreme - to revoke someone's rank who has already earned it is dishonest, because it implies that after you have recognized them as a Lord or a Knight you still retain the ability to hold them to account, despite the earning of those ranks signifying (among other things) their ability to hold themselves to account, and the recognition and granting of them (from the administrative standpoint) being an official acknowledgment of such by the governing body.
My activity there will almost inevitably lead to my title and rank being restored as a byproduct, unless the ruling Dark Lady there decides it should be withheld out of spite - and frankly, I hope that's unlikely, I tend to think more highly of her than to believe she would do that but part of the damage done by her leadership so far and by her recent decisions, along with the assertions of my never having been worthy of the title I hold, essentially force me to consider the possibility that I've misjudged her and, perhaps, given her too much credit. After all, I've always thought she was perceptive enough to understand where those she knows well are coming from. She doesn't seem to have a clue where I'm coming from (casting my disagreement as petty, as if a bruised ego was driving me to disagreeing with the decision) and, more shockingly imo, has demonstrated no interest in getting where I'm coming from or showing that it's a concern for her. There is no appreciation for the members, or the role they play in strengthening, growing, and advancing the Order as it moves from moment to moment, but plenty of willingness to claim ownership of their work, their activity, and their own practice, aggregating and presenting it as content of the Order. That's not an approach I can abide by.
I regard that as exploitation without acknowledgement of or appreciation for what and who is being exploited, and without acknowledgement or appreciation, without any respect for the individuals who have played the biggest roles in carrying the Order forward, without any respect for that... there's little reason to allow the exploitation in the first place. Which brings us to where we're at now with this schism; and I do this not to undermine or oppose her Order directly, but to offer an alternative to those who feel as I do, to ensure that the Order as I founded it and envision it actually continues in fact as well as in name (she can use the name all she wants) in its intended purpose, and if my concerns about the longevity of the Order under her current methods end up playing out, to ensure the Order continues beyond her time as a leader (something she doesn't seem to be keeping in mind, if the precedent she's set with the ranks is anything to go by, as anyone who comes after her could use her actions as justification in making even more detrimental, free wheeling, and unsound decisions). As I thought it would when I handed things off to her, frankly.
This has to happen, in part, because more than misunderstanding just little ol' me, I've become convinced she misunderstands not just the titles of Knight and Lord, or her role regarding them from a position of leadership, but that she does not entirely understand the nature of leadership associated with being Dark Lady of the Sith.
It may mean you run an Order in your own right, but how that is carried out (ones modus operandi, shall we say) matters in terms of how long you are able to do so. As someone who has established an Order with a lifespan of 12 years (and still counting) I would think my opinions on this area should hold some weight with her, at least in terms of being heard out. Since they don't, and since my views fall on entirely deaf ears, I have no capacity to demonstrate the principles or consequences I'm talking about when it comes to her decisions, at least not in the context of the Order she presides over. What she failed to consider is, whether she wants them to be heard or considered is irrelevant; they will be heard, they will be part of my legacy, and if there won't be heard there that's a non-issue. Whether or not my views are heard, or affect the course of the Order in a more transcendental sense (the level on which it exists as something bigger than any specific Order that acts as a torch bearer in a given era), just as with my title, is not up to her. So that we're clear on a few things:
I have no intention of asking that any of my past work be removed from her Order lol, nor do I believe there's any point or value in boycotting the 5th incarnation she's running. Hopefully that will be reciprocated as I have as much a claim on her past works being used here as she has over mine being used there. That seems fair. And individuals who join here will not be discouraged from going to or being active at her site; verily, I would encourage you to explore her Order as much as this one. She's a Lady of the Sith in her own right and might yet find her footing and course correct, despite the deliberate offensive that marked my return I don't want to play her game in the mid to long term. She earned her rank and though I may question the legitimacy of it, call her out on double standards applied to people like Khaos and me but not to her, and so on, I stand by my reasoning for myself and him when it comes to her. I may not believe she's living up to it atm, and will say so when I think it's called for, but she holds it still. Even if our roles were reversed and I had the option to do what she did, revoking it on the basis of her shortcomings, I recognize the limits of a Dark Lords authority.
Her shortcomings and failures are for her to worry about, ultimately, and that's another part of why the site you're now at exists. I will call it like I see it, but I didn't come back to the Order to get bogged down in a fight over who has what authority. The principles I'm talking about are not something I have to convince her of in my view; they're axiomatic, realities she is going to have to deal with whether she wants to or not. Case in point being that she accused me of trying to exert influence, and having a fit because I lacked admin controls. As you can clearly see, those are not actually hard to come by, and mean nothing in ensuring a Dark Lord or Lady's authority. A member can, at any time, establish and run an Order of their own, and the more you attempt to exert authority you don't actually have over the other members, the more likely those members are to ignore, disregard, or actively oppose the authority you do have. The more clear it will become that the authority you thought you had was never really there, and while it has the side benefit of more individuals practicing, affiliating with others, etc. on their own terms the flip side of that benefit if the cost to the Order in having lost their respect. Lose that and you'll begin to experience diminishing returns on the value they bring.
When individuals who generate that value get no credit for what they've brought, their enthusiasm for doing so will lessen over time. That's only natural; ranks are not much in the way of a "prize" to begin with, despite the meaning they have to those who hold them and those who want to possess them, and when you refuse to give them due credit and respect when it's been earned, you're lack of appreciation will be reciprocated, they will become less and less appreciative of the platform you've constructed or the value it might have (and might still) yield. So here, when you earn a title it endures. If there are substantial doubts about an individuals ability to live up to it and carry it forward with them through the years ahead of them, they should not being given recognition. Once it's given and their competence and value has been acknowledged, there are no take backs.
To establish a system in which there are take backs, in which indian giving of acknowledgement of and respect for your value as a Sith practitioner (and consequently, your potential value to the Order in the present and future) is built into the system and becomes the new normal, from there on out that then diminishes the value of the recognition, where and when it is given. The only way you could think otherwise, to me, is if you believe loyalty to your specific administration, your specific era, and your specific brand of Sith ideology should take priority over the individual members loyalty to the ways of the Sith as they, individually, have come to know and practice them. To believe that is to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the ranks and how they function as mechanisms of continuity for the Order. It also shows a lack of understanding when it comes to the mercenary and often solitary nature of this path. I happen to value loyalty to the ways of the Sith over loyalty to me, at least in the context of operating as a Dark Lord of the Sith. My policies here will reflect that.
Anyways, I don't want to get caught up to much in the weeds with the philosophical disagreements here, but I would like those reading this to think back to the Darth Bane trilogy, specifically the course of events in the third and last book of the set in which Darth Zannah challenges Darth Bane for the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. At some points, each thought the other had betrayed the values and teachings they had both lived since they became Sith and though Bane's apprentice was perhaps the one more at fault (why did she feel it necessary to find an apprentice of her own before challenging Bane? He didn't worry about a successor until he'd eradicated the Brotherhood, but even though she was thinking back to how he had found her she believed she needed to worry about that first, an excuse to put off challenging him imo and one of the few flaws of the Rule of Two that brought Bane's lineage to a halt over a thousand years later) they were both acting in accordance with their values, outlook, and convictions as Sith. They were both true to themselves, their beliefs, and to the Sith Order. They had both begun to suspect unworthiness, but both were Lords of the Sith and after their initial fight on Doan, both willingly met to decide who the reigning Dark Lord would be.
Both proved that in their own way and on their own terms neither had betrayed the ideals, neither had failed in their adherence to Sith ideology, and given that we don't murder to prove dominance in real life I would hope both I and Luciana can recognize that despite our disagreements, however deep they may run on certain issues, we are each worthy of the titles we sport. Whether she concedes she made a mistake soon or she waits and comes up with some arbitrary reason to justify restoring my title, on the basis of her own reasoning and presumably to save face and avoid any admission of having made a mistake... the question is when, not if.
I don't have to hope when it comes to me, I understand that the manner in which I returned was incendiary and may give an impression at odds with this, but I have no interest in spending my time focusing on what she's up to, what she is or is not doing right, whether she's making mistakes or not. Hell, she doesn't care what I think on that front anyways and seems committed to misunderstanding me regardless of what I say or how I say it, so getting hung up on all of that would be an enormous waste of my time. Assuming the feeling is mutual, we can each run these Orders without antagonizing or interfering with each other. Any ties between her Order and this one can and, in my view, should be an arrangement of cross-pollination and mutual benefit.
Win-win, not lose-win or lose-lose. This is not a zero sum game in which one must lose if the other wins.
My activity there will almost inevitably lead to my title and rank being restored as a byproduct, unless the ruling Dark Lady there decides it should be withheld out of spite - and frankly, I hope that's unlikely, I tend to think more highly of her than to believe she would do that but part of the damage done by her leadership so far and by her recent decisions, along with the assertions of my never having been worthy of the title I hold, essentially force me to consider the possibility that I've misjudged her and, perhaps, given her too much credit. After all, I've always thought she was perceptive enough to understand where those she knows well are coming from. She doesn't seem to have a clue where I'm coming from (casting my disagreement as petty, as if a bruised ego was driving me to disagreeing with the decision) and, more shockingly imo, has demonstrated no interest in getting where I'm coming from or showing that it's a concern for her. There is no appreciation for the members, or the role they play in strengthening, growing, and advancing the Order as it moves from moment to moment, but plenty of willingness to claim ownership of their work, their activity, and their own practice, aggregating and presenting it as content of the Order. That's not an approach I can abide by.
I regard that as exploitation without acknowledgement of or appreciation for what and who is being exploited, and without acknowledgement or appreciation, without any respect for the individuals who have played the biggest roles in carrying the Order forward, without any respect for that... there's little reason to allow the exploitation in the first place. Which brings us to where we're at now with this schism; and I do this not to undermine or oppose her Order directly, but to offer an alternative to those who feel as I do, to ensure that the Order as I founded it and envision it actually continues in fact as well as in name (she can use the name all she wants) in its intended purpose, and if my concerns about the longevity of the Order under her current methods end up playing out, to ensure the Order continues beyond her time as a leader (something she doesn't seem to be keeping in mind, if the precedent she's set with the ranks is anything to go by, as anyone who comes after her could use her actions as justification in making even more detrimental, free wheeling, and unsound decisions). As I thought it would when I handed things off to her, frankly.
This has to happen, in part, because more than misunderstanding just little ol' me, I've become convinced she misunderstands not just the titles of Knight and Lord, or her role regarding them from a position of leadership, but that she does not entirely understand the nature of leadership associated with being Dark Lady of the Sith.
It may mean you run an Order in your own right, but how that is carried out (ones modus operandi, shall we say) matters in terms of how long you are able to do so. As someone who has established an Order with a lifespan of 12 years (and still counting) I would think my opinions on this area should hold some weight with her, at least in terms of being heard out. Since they don't, and since my views fall on entirely deaf ears, I have no capacity to demonstrate the principles or consequences I'm talking about when it comes to her decisions, at least not in the context of the Order she presides over. What she failed to consider is, whether she wants them to be heard or considered is irrelevant; they will be heard, they will be part of my legacy, and if there won't be heard there that's a non-issue. Whether or not my views are heard, or affect the course of the Order in a more transcendental sense (the level on which it exists as something bigger than any specific Order that acts as a torch bearer in a given era), just as with my title, is not up to her. So that we're clear on a few things:
I have no intention of asking that any of my past work be removed from her Order lol, nor do I believe there's any point or value in boycotting the 5th incarnation she's running. Hopefully that will be reciprocated as I have as much a claim on her past works being used here as she has over mine being used there. That seems fair. And individuals who join here will not be discouraged from going to or being active at her site; verily, I would encourage you to explore her Order as much as this one. She's a Lady of the Sith in her own right and might yet find her footing and course correct, despite the deliberate offensive that marked my return I don't want to play her game in the mid to long term. She earned her rank and though I may question the legitimacy of it, call her out on double standards applied to people like Khaos and me but not to her, and so on, I stand by my reasoning for myself and him when it comes to her. I may not believe she's living up to it atm, and will say so when I think it's called for, but she holds it still. Even if our roles were reversed and I had the option to do what she did, revoking it on the basis of her shortcomings, I recognize the limits of a Dark Lords authority.
Her shortcomings and failures are for her to worry about, ultimately, and that's another part of why the site you're now at exists. I will call it like I see it, but I didn't come back to the Order to get bogged down in a fight over who has what authority. The principles I'm talking about are not something I have to convince her of in my view; they're axiomatic, realities she is going to have to deal with whether she wants to or not. Case in point being that she accused me of trying to exert influence, and having a fit because I lacked admin controls. As you can clearly see, those are not actually hard to come by, and mean nothing in ensuring a Dark Lord or Lady's authority. A member can, at any time, establish and run an Order of their own, and the more you attempt to exert authority you don't actually have over the other members, the more likely those members are to ignore, disregard, or actively oppose the authority you do have. The more clear it will become that the authority you thought you had was never really there, and while it has the side benefit of more individuals practicing, affiliating with others, etc. on their own terms the flip side of that benefit if the cost to the Order in having lost their respect. Lose that and you'll begin to experience diminishing returns on the value they bring.
When individuals who generate that value get no credit for what they've brought, their enthusiasm for doing so will lessen over time. That's only natural; ranks are not much in the way of a "prize" to begin with, despite the meaning they have to those who hold them and those who want to possess them, and when you refuse to give them due credit and respect when it's been earned, you're lack of appreciation will be reciprocated, they will become less and less appreciative of the platform you've constructed or the value it might have (and might still) yield. So here, when you earn a title it endures. If there are substantial doubts about an individuals ability to live up to it and carry it forward with them through the years ahead of them, they should not being given recognition. Once it's given and their competence and value has been acknowledged, there are no take backs.
To establish a system in which there are take backs, in which indian giving of acknowledgement of and respect for your value as a Sith practitioner (and consequently, your potential value to the Order in the present and future) is built into the system and becomes the new normal, from there on out that then diminishes the value of the recognition, where and when it is given. The only way you could think otherwise, to me, is if you believe loyalty to your specific administration, your specific era, and your specific brand of Sith ideology should take priority over the individual members loyalty to the ways of the Sith as they, individually, have come to know and practice them. To believe that is to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the ranks and how they function as mechanisms of continuity for the Order. It also shows a lack of understanding when it comes to the mercenary and often solitary nature of this path. I happen to value loyalty to the ways of the Sith over loyalty to me, at least in the context of operating as a Dark Lord of the Sith. My policies here will reflect that.
Anyways, I don't want to get caught up to much in the weeds with the philosophical disagreements here, but I would like those reading this to think back to the Darth Bane trilogy, specifically the course of events in the third and last book of the set in which Darth Zannah challenges Darth Bane for the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. At some points, each thought the other had betrayed the values and teachings they had both lived since they became Sith and though Bane's apprentice was perhaps the one more at fault (why did she feel it necessary to find an apprentice of her own before challenging Bane? He didn't worry about a successor until he'd eradicated the Brotherhood, but even though she was thinking back to how he had found her she believed she needed to worry about that first, an excuse to put off challenging him imo and one of the few flaws of the Rule of Two that brought Bane's lineage to a halt over a thousand years later) they were both acting in accordance with their values, outlook, and convictions as Sith. They were both true to themselves, their beliefs, and to the Sith Order. They had both begun to suspect unworthiness, but both were Lords of the Sith and after their initial fight on Doan, both willingly met to decide who the reigning Dark Lord would be.
Both proved that in their own way and on their own terms neither had betrayed the ideals, neither had failed in their adherence to Sith ideology, and given that we don't murder to prove dominance in real life I would hope both I and Luciana can recognize that despite our disagreements, however deep they may run on certain issues, we are each worthy of the titles we sport. Whether she concedes she made a mistake soon or she waits and comes up with some arbitrary reason to justify restoring my title, on the basis of her own reasoning and presumably to save face and avoid any admission of having made a mistake... the question is when, not if.
I don't have to hope when it comes to me, I understand that the manner in which I returned was incendiary and may give an impression at odds with this, but I have no interest in spending my time focusing on what she's up to, what she is or is not doing right, whether she's making mistakes or not. Hell, she doesn't care what I think on that front anyways and seems committed to misunderstanding me regardless of what I say or how I say it, so getting hung up on all of that would be an enormous waste of my time. Assuming the feeling is mutual, we can each run these Orders without antagonizing or interfering with each other. Any ties between her Order and this one can and, in my view, should be an arrangement of cross-pollination and mutual benefit.
Win-win, not lose-win or lose-lose. This is not a zero sum game in which one must lose if the other wins.